Author Interviews - Print:
Please scroll down the page for full view of interviews and interview links with the authors
of John Holmes: A Life Measured in Inches:
Film Threat with Phil Hall:
The Mr. Skin Interview with C.G. Hilliard:
NOISE with Emily Caswell:
Cindi's Naked Truth at P.S. Babylon, hosted by Darrah Ford:
** In January, Jennifer Sugar and Jill C. Nelson met with Roger T. Pipe, a writer
and reviewer for the adult entertainment industry, for his own website: www.rogreviews.com. Recently, Sugar and Nelson talked with Roger about their book:
Exclusive Interview with Jennifer Sugar & Jill Nelson: Authors of John Holmes, A Life Measured in
Inches
Jennifer Sugar and Jill Nelson have written a new book on John Holmes. It’s
called John Holmes, a Life Measured in Inches and it’s a very compelling read. It is a comprehensive look at the life, career, downfall and eventual death of the
biggest legend the adult industry has ever seen. I got to meet the authors of the book in Vegas at the AEE and they agreed
to a an interview about their project. It is short and sweet, but I hope you find it interesting.
What are
your backgrounds?
Jennifer Sugar: I am a graduate from Michigan State University with a
background in math and biology. Besides my background in research, I didn't have any specific qualifications when I began
writing the book.
Jill Nelson: I am a 51 year old married mother of two and a Hearing
Instrument Specialist by profession. I have always enjoyed writing as a hobby, but never attempted to have anything published
prior to working on this book.
What led you to do a book on the adult industry? / Why John Holmes
as the central figure? Jennifer Sugar: I had no affiliation with the adult industry and
I didn't know enough about it to have an opinion, one way or the other. At that point, I had only seen a couple of porn
movies, but none of Holmes'.
Of course, at 21 years old, I understood the intimation on the radio,
"Our sets are longer than John Holmes," and I was naturally curious. One random day in October of 2003, I skipped
class to see a movie. I guess it was fate, because Wonderland was the next thing playing, and I was instantly interested in
seeing it when I heard it involved John Holmes -- sex, drugs and an unsolved multiple murder. Ironically, after I saw
it, I remember saying to my husband, "I will never see a John Holmes movie!"
Over the course
of the next few days, I became more curious about the murders, but also about John's entire life, being that he was a
country boy from Ohio and I'm from Michigan. I watched my first two Holmes movies that weekend, California Gigolo and
The Adventures of Dickman & Throbbin, I watched all of the documentaries and I read everything I could find, but was disappointed
that there wasn't a biography dedicated solely to exploring John Holmes with the depth that I felt the subject required.
It seemed unreal to me, so I decided to begin a comprehensive and definitive biography in 2004. That was the conception of
Inches.
Jill Nelson: I became interested in John Holmes as a person after having rented
the Hollywood film, Wonderland, in 2005. Afterwards, when I started to do my own research on John, I met Jennifer on a message
board for the film Wonderland. Privately, she informed me that she had commenced to write the first and definitive book about
Holmes and about a year later, when she became bogged down with school work and realized the sheer magnitude of the project,
she invited me to become her collaborator.
John struck me as a mult-dimensional person, rather than
the simpleton many people assumed that he was. Although not academically smart, John was a bright and enigmatic individual
throughout his life and career. When Jennifer informed me that she had decided to write John's biography, I was impressed
that it was her mandate to present a fair and unbiased look at his life. Holmes is a seminal figure who is an influential
and important forefather of the X-rated adult entertainment industry, so it was challenging but also exciting to work through
the process together in order to produce this very complete look at John's life. Part of my interest in the subject was
due to the fact that I had no prior knowledge of the adult entertainment industry.
The book includes
comprehensive interviews. How much did you do and how did you put the material together? Jennifer
Sugar: Between Jill and myself, we talked with a total of 35 people who knew or worked with John Holmes, and this
includes several extensive interviews, which resulted in plenty of new material for the book. I began putting material together
after doing the first couple of rounds of interviews (because of being a full-time college student and working to pay the
bills, I was limited to working on the book during summers until the final year, when I took a year off after graduation).
In the beginning, I experimented with several styles, but it was clear that the oral history format with some narrative was
the best way because John's story is so complex. Throughout the process of writing, Jill and I endlessly reworked chapters
because it was important, with the idea of creating something definitive, to remain as unbiased as possible.
Jill
Nelson: Several of the people Jennifer and I interviewed for the biography had not gone on record before to speak
in depth about John. People such as John's girlfriend and Exhausted director, Julia St. Vincent, Marilyn Chambers, Jamie
Gillis, Seka, former L.A.P.D. homicide detectives, Tom Lange and Frank Tomlinson, and others, opened up to us about their
interpersonal relationships, friendships and experiences with John. Because Jennifer and I reside in different countries,
we sent our interview transcriptions, chapters, film/loops reviews and the filmography, back and forth via e-mail, once we
had decided upon a format that worked.
How willing were people to talk about the various aspects of
John’s life, career and issues? Jennifer Sugar: Most people who had worked with John
were very willing to share their experiences, although many of them were cautious at first and asked questions about our motives
and how we planned on portraying John. It was important to us to be unbiased toward John, and also, not to take sides -- to
be fair to the everyone who was quoted in the book.
Jill Nelson: People were open and
forthcoming in talking about the various aspects of John's life, career and issues. For some, their memories are bittersweet,
but overall, they have been very supportive and are pleased with the finished product.
What was the
most surprising thing you learned?
Jennifer Sugar: I think the most surprising thing was
the many facets of John's character. I suspected that there had to be more to him than what had been shown before, but
we showed everything -- the good, the bad, and the sometimes very ugly, but the result is that John was simply a human being,
just like you and I, and we felt that was the central theme.
Jill Nelson: It was surprising
to learn that John was an artistic person who indulged his creative side whenever he had an opportunity. He enjoyed woodworking,
gardening, building, refinishing furniture, sketching, writing and sculpting. It was interesting to have an opportunity to
flesh out these aspects of John's character since those elements had not really been focused upon in past projects about
him. He definitely was a multi-tiered and flawed individual.
After all these years, why do you think
the world is still fascinated by John Holmes?
Jennifer Sugar: I think the world will
always be fascinated by John because of his massive size and the fact that he was the first world famous porn star, back when
porn in America was new and illegal to make and sell. John was and always will be a figure of American pop culture from that
alone, plus his name has been cemented in infamy, because of his association in the 1981 drug-related murders in Laurel Canyon
and his 1988 death from AIDS. It's an unflinching look at a real person that will make you laugh and cry.
Jill
Nelson: John was the very first adult film superstar and the first can never be replaced or replicated, which is
why he is known to this day by his contemporaries as The King. At a time when it was illegal to produce and perform in hardcore
films, John was a pioneer in his chosen field. I believe that our book reveals John as the complicated and conflicted person
that he was, and because of the many contradictions that typify his life, John's story makes for a fascinating read. His
is truly a tragic tale.
What do you think Holmes legacy is?
Jennifer
Sugar: Like any other film star, John immortalized himself. His death from AIDS raised awareness of sexual health
practices in the adult film industry, and John's is probably the best anti-drug story around.
Jill
Nelson: To add to what Jennifer has said, I think John's legacy is also that he is porn's anti-hero in the
minds of many who remember the Golden Age. Before the days of Viagra and augmentation, John had a screen presence that was
natural, non-threatening, but also commanding. Men could identify with his average looks and because of his unique size, women
found him to be desirable.
Do you have any other plans for books on the industry?
Jennifer
Sugar: I would never say never, but it's not my plan. I would like to write more non-fiction, but my goal isn't
to become an adult industry historian.
Jill Nelson: If I were to write another book about
the industry, it would be about the women of the Golden Age. I am interested in their stories and I believe that they are
worthy of being told. At the same time, it would be fun to explore other topics.
If you could ask John
one question and be assured of a 100% honest answer what would you ask?
Jennifer Sugar:
Because my initial interest in John's life story stemmed from my interest in the unsolved murders, I would want to ask
him to tell me what happened from beginning to end. I'm not sure that I would ask that, though, because I believe that
John already said what he wanted to about that topic in the tapes he made prior to his death. We printed his side of the story
in the book, and it all fits surprisingly well with what the police believe happened. I'd probably ask him to explain
how he became involved in the adult industry, since there is a lot of conjecture about that, and it appears that he first
started as a nude model almost immediately after moving to California and meeting his first wife.
Jill
Nelson: In his audiotapes, John joked when talking about writing his autobiography that he would like to dedicate
his book "to the only woman I ever loved" and then leave people guessing as to who he had intimated. Jennifer and
I were able to include some of John's primary relationships in the book, but it would be interesting to find out who he
had truly loved. I would also like to ask John to list his five favourite leading ladies of his 20 year film career. Because
he was a person who often did things contrary to what one might expect, I suspect that his answer would be quite different
than what most people would predict.
Interview with Roger T. Pipe:
** December 2008 Author interview with Gram
Ponante at Porn Valley Observed:
Gram:
What inspired you to write a book about John Holmes?
Jennifer
Sugar: I was five years old when John Holmes died, and so I had no idea who he was until I was 21, when I saw the
movie Wonderland. After seeing the movie, I was interested in the details about John's
life story. After reading and watching everything about John Holmes that I could get my hands on, I learned that there wasn't
already a biography about him, so I decided to write A Life Measured in Inches.
A couple of years into the project, between juggling college classes and my part time job, I "met" Jill
on an internet message board related to Wonderland. We corresponded by e-mail for
a period of time and I could tell that she had some of the same questions about John's life that I had and that she was
genuinely interested in Inches, so I invited her to co-author the book.
Jill C. Nelson: When we first started communicating, I was impressed that Jennifer had decided
to take the high road in her desire to author John's bio, rather than resorting to sensational traps. John was involved
in some despicable acts, but I believe it is easier (and tempting, in many cases) to write a scathing book about a person's
life, rather than to dig and find the diamonds in the rough. When she invited me to assist her with this project, I was honored,
in part, because of her intention to write a fair and balanced biography.
Gram:
How did you decide on the oral history model?
Sugar: In the beginning of
my writing process, I was intimidated with the volume of material and I was having difficulty presenting all of the information
from various interviews. A few people suggested that I try the oral history format, so I read some examples of this (The Other Hollywood: The Uncensored Oral History of the Porn Film Industry and Live From New York: An Uncensored History of Saturday Night Live, as Told By Its Stars, Writers and Guests ). It took a lot of experimentation before Jill and I found what worked best -- our goal was to present "whole"
quotes that weren't choppy or taken out of context and to present as unbiased view of John as possible.
The
main reason I think the oral history format is the best way to tell Holmes' story is because he is such a multi-faceted
man. More often than not, there is more than one side to these stories and a juxtaposed presentation of the actual quotes
from our interviewees allows the reader room to make interpretations.
Nelson:
Some of the people we interviewed were displeased by the way in which the information they had imparted had been misconstrued
in previous projects relating to the adult entertainment industry, as a whole. They very much appreciated the fact that we'd
quoted them verbatim, utilizing the oral history format.
Gram: How long
did the book take to complete and how would you describe the logistics of your collaboration? For example, did you write over
e-mail or across a table?
Sugar: The book took a total of four years to
complete, beginning in August 2004 to when the book was released in August 2008. When Jill and I started working together,
we sent files back and forth over e-mail and talked over more complex issues by phone. The first time that we met in person
was in July 2007, when we both went to California to do in-person interviews for the book. We only worked together in person
one other time before the book was published, when I went to Jill's house for several days to work together on the photo
sections.
Gram: Did you encounter any resistance to your questions of the
LAPD or the adult community?
Sugar: Not really. Once or twice, there were
a couple of questions people would not answer or not want "on the record," but it was very rare.
Nelson: The people within the adult community felt that our approach was refreshing, and
I believe they took a leap of faith because of the fact that we weren't a part of the adult entertainment industry.
The same is true for the two former L.A.P.D. homicide detectives, Tom Lange and
Frank Tomlinson. They trusted us and viewed our book as a welcome opportunity to tell their side of the story, since neither
one had really spoken (in depth) publicly, about the Laurel Canyon case before.
Gram:
Aside from learning the facts of the Wonderland case and the those of Holmes' life, did anything surprise you? If so,
what?
Sugar: It was surprising to learn more about John as a father figure
to Bill Amerson's children and Laurie Holmes' son. Up until A Life Measured in Inches,
John's role in these childrens' lives hadn't been discussed in detail.
Nelson:
I found it enlightening to gain information about John artistic side. By many accounts, he truly enjoyed working in various
capacities within the art medium -- whether it was building, writing, drawing or sculpting. And he loved music.
Gram: As so much of Holmes' story was of his own fabrication, did you ever find yourself
in the middle of conflicting accounts between eyewitnesses? Particularly I'm thinking of Laurie Holmes, Dawn Schiller,
Sharon Holmes, and Julia St. Vincent, who seem to be the main women in the story.
Sugar:
We weren't able to interview Sharon and Dawn, but we were granted permission by Hustler to use their quotes from the WADD interview transcripts. It was disappointing that we did not get to ask them our own
questions, but using the other transcripts, we were able to fill in their stories. There did not seem to be conflicting accounts.
For example, Dawn's version of the time that she and Julia confronted John together was very similar to what Julia had
told me. It all seemed to fit together very nicely.
Nelson: John was a chameleon
and displayed different sides of himself to everyone he encountered, including the various women in his personal life. Julia
commented that she experienced more of the flashier side of John, whereas, Dawn was more accustomed to John's artistic
side. Laurie spoke of him being a homebody, and because Sharon had known John longer than any of the other women, she remembered
him when he was a "regular" guy, prior to his foray into the adult genre and his troubles that later resulted because
of his addiction. It was interesting that because of their unique experiences with John, there really weren't contrary
accounts.
Gram: Based on your research and your immersion in this story,
what do you think happened on 1 July, 1981, the morning of the Wonderland Murders?
Sugar:
I think that Ed Nash found out that John set up the robbery at Nash's on June 29th, and so he forced John to lead the
killers to the Wonderland house -- or else. John chose to lead the killers to the house and to let them in or leave the door
unlocked, like he had done at Nash's. My gut feeling is that the killers forced John to watch the murders. I will always
wonder why John wasn't also killed, but Nash seemed to have liked John and for whatever reason, he didn't want to
kill John, but still wanted to make sure that he fully understood, "Don't f***" with Ed Nash.
Nelson: I have to go along with the evidence (or lack thereof) presented in the trial. Because
there wasn't anything concrete to support the proposal put forth by the prosecution that John had actually participated
in the murders, I believe that John's involvement in the murders was as a spectator, and that he was forced to watch under
duress.
Gram: Beyond calling Holmes complex, do you believe you would like
him if you met him? My own jury is out on this, but I have a feeling that if I knew him as a contemporary, I'd like him.
Sugar: I hate to admit it, but I probably would have liked John if I had met
him. He had "it," whether it was, his blue eyes, his big heart, or his big penis -- most people who met John were
entranced by him and many of them still have fond memories of John, despite the bad (and often reprehensible) decisions he
made in life.
Nelson: John's charismatic nature was potent, which is
why people found him hard to resist. Despite his "bad boy" tendencies, I do believe that he possessed redeeming
qualities, so I most likely would have liked him, had I met him. According to those we talked to, John's poor choices
were (mostly) a result of his addiction to cocaine and freebase. That isn't an excuse, but it is a way to try to comprehend
what might have motivated him to be hurtful to other people, in his insatiable quest for drugs. Bob Chinn told Jennifer and
I that the "old" John was the greatest person you'd ever want to meet.
Audacia Ray at Naked City interviewed
Jennifer Sugar about "Inches" on August 8/08
For the last few years,
writer Jennifer Sugar has been on a mission to bring porn legend John Holmes' life into print in a definitive biography.
She added co-author Jill C. Nelson to the mix last year and the final product, John Holmes: A Life Measured in Inches hits
the stands today. The duo interviewed 35 people, reviewed 200 of Holmes' films, and did a whole lot of leg work to produce
this book.
Naked City editor Audacia Ray emailed with Jennifer and asked about the process of doing the research
for the book and what they found out along the way.
[Also, trivia fact - August 8th would have been John Holmes'
64th birthday had he not died of AIDS]
Audacia Ray: What drew you to the life of John Holmes and made you decide
to write a book about it?
Jennifer Sugar: I was 21 when I saw the film Wonderland and at that time, I didn't
know who John Holmes was. In fact, I'd arrived at the theater at the wrong time to see a different movie, but Wonderland
was playing next, so I decided to see it. The movie depicts about one week in John's 44 years - when he was in the depths
of his addiction to freebase cocaine and was working as a drug mule between several people, including the so-called "Wonderland
Gang" and Ed Nash, a notorious L.A. nightclub owner. As the movie shows, John orchestrated a robbery by the Wonderland
people at the home of Ed Nash, which police believe precipitated the gruesome, unsolved multiple homicide at the Wonderland
Avenue home less than 48 hours later. Holmes was implicated when his palm print was found on the bed rail above one of the
victim's bashed-in heads. Although there wasn't evidence to prove that John had participated in murdering anyone (he
was eventually acquitted of the related murder charges), Wonderland shows John taking part in swinging a pipe.
When
I left the theater, I felt like I hated John Holmes and I remember saying that I would never see a John Holmes film. However,
within a week, my curiosity had grown and I saw two of his films. I also wondered how a boy from Ohio could become the world's
first and most famous porn star, before becoming addicted to drugs and being involved with the murders. I wanted to read a
book about it, but found there wasn't one devoted solely to John's life, so I decided to write the definitive biography.
AR: How did you conduct your research about John Holmes?
JS: First, I watched all of the documentaries
about John and read his autobiography, Porn King, plus all of the news and magazine articles that I could find. In August
2004, I went to Hollywood for the "Fit for a King" celebration, which recognized what would have been John's
60th birthday. There, I conducted my first interviews, and I met Bill Margold (a.k.a. Porn's Renaissance Man) and Cass
Paley (who directed the best documentary about Holmes, WADD: The Life and Times of John C. Holmes). Bill and Cass were both
very helpful in providing me with research material and contact information to do other interviews. I also began to watch
and review Holmes' films. In 2007 I invited a Canadian, Jill Nelson, to co-author the book with me. Together, we completed
35 interviews with people who knew John Holmes, including Bob Chinn, Laurie Holmes, Detective Frank Tomlinson and Detective
Tom Lange. Between the two of us, we watched and reviewed a total of 200 Holmes' films, including the entire nine-part
Johnny Wadd series. The book includes all 200 reviews, a filmography that is not available online, and three photo sections
(that include nude photos of John from the early days of his career), in addition to 14 chapters that chronicle all aspects
of Holmes' life.
AR: What was the most surprising thing you learned about Holmes in the course of your research?
JS: Given my introduction to John Holmes with Wonderland, I was surprised to learn that John was a "normal guy,"
and he meant the world to some people. Although it's indisputable that John did some very bad things associated with his
drug addiction, it was heartwarming to learn that he was a very devoted godfather to the children of his best friend and manager,
Bill Amerson. Amerson's son summed this up best when he told Jill and I, "The John Holmes I knew was not the monster
often summoned up in people's imaginations. He made sure I had new clothes, money for lunch. ...[He] always took a general
interest in me and my life when no one else did."
With sentiments such as Sean Amerson's, Jill and I
were able to present not only the most complete, but the most balanced look at John Holmes available to date. It truly is
a fresh look at The King of Porn.
AR: Of the people you interviewed for the book, who was the toughest nut to crack?
JS: Everyone we interviewed was very kind and helpful in sharing their memories about John, but in answer to the question,
John's widow, Laurie Holmes, was probably the toughest person with whom we secured an interview. After Jill called Laurie
for the first time, Laurie checked in with Bill Margold to ask about us before she agreed to do the interview. She is very
protective over John's estate and her memories of him. So, we were very happy to get a chance to interview her about her
five year relationship with John and ask questions about John as a stepfather to her son. Laurie kindly granted us permission
to use quotes from John's audiotapes and Porn King, which worked beautifully within our book. Readers of Inches will be
pleasantly surprised that John - who was well known for his ability to spin a good yarn - was remarkably candid at times in
many of these quotes that we chose. We couldn't be more pleased with the help from everyone who made John Holmes: A Life
Measured in Inches possible!
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